Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 March 27

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March 27

Category:States with limited recognition

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: keep. (non-admin closure) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 20:42, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:States with limited recognition to Category:Non-UN states

Nominator's rationale: The main article should be List of sovereign states not a subset.

The states intended for inclusion are the states described as "Other states".

See Category talk:States with limited recognition for further detail. Selfstudier (talk) 22:09, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, the current name isn't that bad. With the proposed name we would need to add Cook Islands and Niue which would be odd. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cook/Niue are not in the UN system so that per se is not odd. There is an ongoing discussion re the anomaly of these entities being included as sovereign states in List of sovereign states but not included in List of states with limited recognition, they should be in both or not in either. Selfstudier (talk) 11:21, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is no real life dispute about Cook and Niue, so then the UN list is apparently not decisive in determining limited recognition. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:12, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
"Other states" (ie non UN states) in the sov states list is a closer match for the entries in the limited recognition cat because the UN states included in the limited recognition list are not included in the related cat. The difference between the cat content and the "Other states" is only because of Cook/Niue and Palestine, the latter classed as UN in the sov states list, 13 - 2 + 1 = 12. I think it is clear that the UN is indeed relevant. Selfstudier (talk) 21:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We aren't categorizing by what is in a Wikipedia list, we are categorizing by what the situation is in real life. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, also includes an abbreviation contrary to MOS:ACROTITLE. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 05:51, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If that is the only reason, no objection if it reads "Non-United Nations states", "states not in United Nations system" or some equivalent formulation without an abbreviation.Selfstudier (talk) 10:30, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@LaundryPizza03: you may want to expand on whether the abbreviation is your only objection. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:24, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In light of the other comments, I agree that this should be kept at the current name. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 02:27, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the current title is fine. Plus the Vatican City is a perfectly valid nation that to my knowledge all other countries recognize, but isn't a part of the UN. Other problematic examples are listed above. Inter&anthro (talk) 22:47, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Absent support, please close this. Thank you. Selfstudier (talk) 09:45, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as it is -- The present name describes the status well. Most sovereign states are UN members, but not necessarily all. Most will claim to be independent, but the rest of the world regards them as the result of one country having invaded another, or being in rebellion against the recognised state. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Defunct LGBT nightclubs

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 14#Category:Defunct LGBT nightclubs

Category:Tourist attractions in Enid, Oklahoma

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 April 10#Category:Tourist attractions in Enid, Oklahoma

Coffeehouses and cafés

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Rename/merge all Timrollpickering (talk) 21:55, 1 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging and renaming

subcategories nominated too

Nominator's rationale: rename/merge, coffeehouses and cafés (together in one article) are too closely related to put them in different categories. The proposed format is per User:Johnbod's suggestion. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:28, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Some countries prefer one term, some the other. Some have both, without much obvious difference between them. Johnbod (talk) 20:50, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think in some countries, "cafes" are considered to be restaurants, rather than coffeehouses. Also, I think you neglected to tag Category:Cafés to indicate it is part of this discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:50, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Which countries did you have in mind? The Cafe Royal was/is a very famous & expensive restaurant in London, and the Café de Paris, London a nightclub, but these don't impact the general British meaning. No doubt there are other examples. Perhaps they should not be in these categories, but I don't know a country where cafe = restaurant. Johnbod (talk) 02:04, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. In French-speaking parts of the world, restaurants are often named "Café [X]" and serve as cafés in between mealtimes. In France, they are known as café-restaurants. There are some places called "Café [X]" which serve only as restaurants and not as cafés, but that is more of a naming quirk than a real category. I don't think it's an issue. JBchrch talk 16:05, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Football clubs in Hafar Al-Batin

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge to Category:Football clubs in Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Football clubs in Hafar Al-Batin to Category:Football clubs in Hafar al-Batin

Nominator's rationale: To agree with lowercase "al" in Hafar al-Batin. Dicklyon (talk) 17:42, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Category:Football clubs in Eastern Province, Saudi Arabia per WP:SMALLCAT. Category:Hafar al-Batin as a potential second merge target does not even exist yet. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:22, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging User:GiantSnowman who usually participates in football-related category discussions. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:27, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. Giant Snowman 08:38, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Marcocapelle. Giant Snowman 08:38, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:‎Wikipedians in Linthicum, Maryland

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) JBchrch talk 23:45, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Wikipedians in Linthicum, Maryland (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Tagged by LucasKannou with the edit summary Too few people to support a location category, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 17#Category:Wikipedians in Mount Juliet, Tennessee, but not listed. I agree the category should be deleted for that rationale, so am adopting the nomination and listing it here. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:54, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedians in Hagerstown, Maryland

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) JBchrch talk 00:21, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Wikipedians in Hagerstown, Maryland (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Too few people to support a location category, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 17#Category:Wikipedians in Mount Juliet, Tennessee . * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:17, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:55, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedians in Annapolis

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkl talk 17:52, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Wikipedians in Annapolis (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Too few people to support a location category, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 17#Category:Wikipedians in Mount Juliet, Tennessee. If kept, rename to Category:Wikipedians in Annapolis, Maryland per C2D. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will keep the category for my templates that I created. LucasKannou (talk) 15:12, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

User:LucasKannou/Templates I created is incorrectly placed in these categories and should be removed. User:LucasKannou is the page that should be in the categories, like it's doing for 2 others. Gonnym (talk) 16:17, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:56, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Bishops in Germany by century

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: Rename to "in the Holy Roman Empire Timrollpickering (talk) 09:10, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:18th-century bishops in Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:17th-century bishops in Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:16th-century bishops in Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:15th-century bishops in Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:14th-century bishops in Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:13th-century bishops in Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Propose deleting Category:12th-century bishops in Germany (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Germany was not a state in these centuries. It belonged to the Holy Roman Empire. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:31, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Laurel Lodged is of course quite right, but Germany was still an entity and we have many German occupational categories before 1870. I think there is a tacit agreement that unpicking the German categories is impractical. We could have 18th-century bishops in Prussia, but what would we do about all the small states? For clergy how defining was the Holy Roman Empire? Would it be better to merge these categories with Category:German bishops? Rathfelder (talk) 10:35, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Rename all to Holy Roman Empire, per discussion above. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:08, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Laurel Lodged and Rathfelder: what is your opinion about this rename? Marcocapelle (talk) 03:44, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So what about Category:18th-century German bishops and similar categories? Rathfelder (talk) 20:21, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They're grand. A German national is still a German national. A German without a state is still a German. A German in the Holy Roman Empire is still a German. There were many nationalities in the HRE. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:47, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The concept of a (German or other) nationality is quite anachronistic in the Holy Roman Empire. At best we might classify people by language that they spoke, but that may become fuzzy too. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:53, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I dont think it is sensible to deal with these categories in isolation. If we want to abolish German categories before 1870 that needs a much wider discussion. Rathfelder (talk) 22:34, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Why? What other countries are impacted by this nomination? Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:58, 29 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support renames as suggested by Marco. Laurel Lodged (talk) 06:57, 30 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Rename all to Category:18th-century bishops in Holy Roman Empire and merge in any other German bishops categories such as Category:18th-century German bishops. There ought to be a Lutheran tree as well. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:17, 1 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:User hak-5

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 05:57, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:User hak-5 (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: The category is never used, because Template:User hak-5 has not been create yet. Q28 (talk) 06:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy delete as C1; this should never have been tagged {{empty category}} by R'n'B as it is not the sort of category that template is meant to apply to. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:55, 27 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Geography and place templates

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 24#Geography and place templates

Category:Comedy-drama

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 May 21#Category:Comedy-drama